Here is an interesting article from our friends at the Observer Magazine.
Founder and former director of the Fortean Research Center, Reverend Dr. Raymond W. Boeche has been involved in the study of unexplained phenomena since 1965. He has served as Nebraska State Director for the Mutual UFO Network, on the Board of Advisors for Citizens Against UFO Secrecy, and in various capacities with numerous other organizations around the world, involved in the study of unexplained phenomena. Boeche holds a B.A. from Peru State College, a Th.M. degree from St. Mark’s School of Divinity, and a ThD. from St. Paul Theological College.
In addition to his extensive credentials in both theology and Fortean phenomenon, Reverend Boeche has been an outspoken proponent of the possible demonic origin of UFOs. I reached out to him for an interview to discuss this controversial theory. (Then again, when it comes to UFOs, what theory isn’t controversial?)
Bernie: Hello, and thank you for sharing your time today with our readers.
Bernie: Hello, and thank you for sharing your time today with our readers.
Rev. Ray Boeche: Hello Bernie, more than happy to share my time with you.
Bernie: Demonic UFOs. I know this is a multi-layered and a very complicated theory on the origins of UFOs. It’s taking the accepted precepts of theology and applying them to what could be considered a totally secular modernist and technological scientific approach. This viewpoint could almost be seen by some to be a “supernatural versus rational” argument. How do you bring these two opposing sides together?
RB: Let me preface our discussion with some background information to help set the stage. The question of a spiritual (or, if you prefer, a supernatural, or trans- or ultra-dimensional view of UFOs) and particularly a Christian view of the UFO question, always raises objections based principally upon the ignorance of critics as to the real relationship of Christianity to science, logic, and reason.
I want to correctly frame the context from which I view this subject. While I am, unapologetically, a historically orthodox Christian, a theologian and apologist, I hold that Christianity and science are not opposed, but are simply two fields of study working toward a common goal: Truth.
Francis Bacon, who laid the foundation for the scientific method, said, “God has, in fact, written two books, not just one. Of course, we are all familiar with the first book he wrote, namely Scripture. But he has written a second book called creation” (1).
Many times, the argument is made that faith is a blind leap of illogic, but that science is coldly and implacably empirical. That is not true, and it is especially false when we consider the most basic foundational questions: the origin of space, time, matter, and life.
Dr. Paul Davies—theoretical physicist, astrobiologist, and cosmologist at ASU—plainly states the true position of science on this aspect: “Clearly, then, both religion and science are founded on faith — namely, on belief in the existence of something outside the universe, like an unexplained God or an unexplained set of physical laws, maybe even a huge ensemble of unseen universes, too … until science comes up with a testable theory of the laws of the universe, its claim to be free of faith is manifestly bogus” (2). [author’s emphasis]
So whether one begins at theology or at pure science, the starting point is faith. As a Christian and a theologian by vocation, I therefore view the Bible as the final authority on matters of faith and practice.
We do have subjective testimonial data from individuals—many of whom are extremely credible—who have claimed long-term contact and discourse with non-human entities, most of whom claim to be beings from some other point of origin, be it another planet or a different dimension. This testimony, these conversations, are the only evidence we have that may give us clues as to the source and purpose of these entities.
So, if we’re going to attempt to address the questions surrounding these phenomena, we need to be familiar with the content of both of the books referenced by Francis Bacon: science and scripture.
B: Ray, that was some ride! But I can see how important that is to this conversation. So let’s think here, when one makes a broad-based statement that UFOs are demonic to anybody, the premise can be immediately understood at its face value: “Oh, OK, got it, UFOs are evil, end of story.” But really what does that explain? Can the UFO mystery be totally and adequately explained away by this argument?
B: Ray, that was some ride! But I can see how important that is to this conversation. So let’s think here, when one makes a broad-based statement that UFOs are demonic to anybody, the premise can be immediately understood at its face value: “Oh, OK, got it, UFOs are evil, end of story.” But really what does that explain? Can the UFO mystery be totally and adequately explained away by this argument?
RB: I have never said that the UFO phenomenon in its entirety is demonic, only that some of the witness data regarding human interaction with this phenomena seems to indicate that some of these events may be demonic in nature.
B: Some researchers believe that demons are not creating temporary “physical constructions,” but instead are planting “dreams” into people’s minds. Are demons turning people into “temporary mediums,” so to speak—making people believe that these planted visions are a real experience?
RB: Dreams and visions would certainly present themselves as a possibility. Whether those dreams and visions are “implanted” by other non-human entities, or are the product of the percipient’s own mind would be wide open for debate. However, the physical effects of these objects on the environment, and the physiological effects of human interactions with these things, certainly implies a tangible, physical aspect to the phenomena.
B: In the Bible, Satan is referred to as “The prince of the power of the air.” Does that mean Satan is in the air all the time, thus able to create UFO-like illusions? Can demons physically manifest themselves into what an observer would see as a real, physical object? Are these spirits shape-shifters that could take on a “flying saucer” shape and create other residual physical effects, like landing impressions or burn marks?
RB: Scripture says that when angels interact directly with humanity, they most often materialize in human forms, and since we have no accounts of these human-appearing beings walking around naked, we must logically assume they can manipulate matter into clothing as well.
Since the goal of demonic spirits is to deceive humanity, it is not unreasonable to consider their ability to materialize as humanoid beings in various forms, and to interact with humans and provide them with a misguided narrative. They might be able to materialize metallic-appearing craft that behave in seemingly impossible ways, and could even land or crash these craft to bolster the supposition that they come from another planet.
It follows that if the assumption of the ability to create material forms is correct, they could certainly create physical effects on the surrounding environment.
B: I understand you had a UFO sighting when you were young. What did you first think UFOs were? And then later in life, what caused your religious beliefs to collide head-on with your belief in UFOs?
RB: Yes, this happened one evening back in July of 1965, my family—along with our neighbors across the street just north of us—watched a large (about 100 feet in diameter), glowing, disc-shaped object pass over our backyard at just above tree-top height. It traveled north until it was out of sight. It was a clear, cloudless evening, about 9:30 pm, just beginning to get dark. The object was completely silent, and unlike anything conventional. Nothing appeared in the local paper about others seeing it, but word of mouth in my small hometown made it clear to my parents that several other friends of theirs had seen the same thing.
My response was that of most people: I wasn’t sure what I had seen. I was intrigued, and that sparked my interest in the UFO question. My initial assumptions echoed those of the primary voices of the time: Donald Keyhoe, Jim and Coral Lorenzen, Frank Edwards, etc.
But as time went on and I gained a broader perspective of what people were experiencing, I realized there was, as I later heard my friend Allen Hynek put it, a “mystical aspect” to the UFO question that didn’t make sense in terms of physical craft from another planet.
By 1967 or ’68, I had begun to see that something more was going on with the phenomenon. What was being reported by witnesses made the explanation that they were “spacecraft from another world” too simple an explanation.
I never really had a “belief” in UFOs. The evidence to me seemed overwhelming that something was happening which couldn’t be explained in terms of our current level of scientific understanding. Belief was never a factor—the evidence of the phenomena was.
B: You mentioned that you started to see a change in how the phenomenon was perceived. In the early ‘50s through the early ‘60s they were thought of as real, nuts-and-bolts, physical machines. Then, as you quoted Dr. Hynek, “UFOs were taking on a more mystical nature.” What happened as the decades progressed?
RB: Well, in the 1980s, it became very clear that the question of UFOs was, in many quarters, beginning to morph into a sort of bizarre, quasi-religious cult. People were pinning their hope on a technologically superior alien race to solve all of humanity’s problems and become our savior.
B: In the UFO literature, there are a great number of books that deal with the subject of Spacemen as Gods. Do you think that demons are influencing this train of thought? Is Satan/Lucifer trying to create a false UFO religion? If so, why?
RB: Yes to the first two questions. And as to why ... What makes Satan’s lies so attractive, is in his very nature: “Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. So it is no great surprise if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness, but their end will correspond with their deeds.” (2 Cor 11: 14–15)
Encouraging the idea that a technologically advanced race will save us from ourselves, and whatever they say will be true, is a great idol to set before humanity in place of God.
B: What dangers, if any, will a person encounter if they get too deeply involved with UFO research?
RB: I’ll let John Keel speak to this. His observations and conclusions, especially coming from an atheist/agnostic perspective, reflect my Christian perspective on this question very eloquently:
“The Devil and his demons can, according to the literature, manifest themselves in almost any form and can physically imitate anything from angels to horrifying monsters with glowing eyes. Strange objects and entities materialize and dematerialize in these stories, just as the UFOs and their splendid occupants appear and disappear, walk through walls, and perform other supernatural feats” (3).
“A mild curiosity about UFOs can turn into a destructive obsession. For this reason, I strongly recommend that parents forbid their children from becoming involved. School teachers and other adults should not encourage teen-agers to take an interest in the subject” (4).
B: Well Ray, on contemplating that ominous advice from Keel, I want to thank you for this compelling interview.
RB: Thank you, Bernie. I always welcome a chance to discuss the implications of theology and science.
The whole post can be found here: https://theobservermagazine.substack.com?utm_source=navbar&utm_medium=web&r=3g3wol
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